Top Undergraduate Biochemistry Programs
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IMO, most top 50 research universities have excellent chemistry departments so really you can't go wrong with any research university. Are you interested in specifics like lot's of research opps or great undergrad chem teachers?
But generally even if someone tells you something like 'MIT is better in chemistry than Stanford', they are splitting hairs. It seems that when people talk about the strengths of a department they are mostly referring to the graduate departments which shouldn't interest you if you are looking for a good undergraduate chem department. I would say of the many excellent research university pick the one that endorses undergrad research, has excellent teachers who can actually teach and not just conduct research, and somewhere where you 'fit'.
I feel that if you can find somewhere that meets all of that criteria you've found the best school for undergrad chem/biochem. Go ahead and ignore the Gourman report - it is basically a graduate ranking. When ranking undergraduate departments, it awards more points for having more students, more TAs, how many graduate students go onto become scholars and stuff like that - things that are explicitly graduate measures, etc. It also provides no data, and Gourman hasn't done research in probably a decade. If you look at the 'criteria' Gourman uses, you'll laugh and realize that the Gourman report is not very helpful. Good undergrad Chem? You can find that at any US News top 50 school.
The best programs belong to the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, MIT, JHU, and a few other top schools. Are you a premed? To westcoastlove, in response to your comment 'I am not sure if ALL ives are good for undergrad Chem.
For one, Brown is not so good.' I feel that is definitely off. I feel like Brown's undergrad chem program offers all the key components to a 'great undergrad chemistry department'. With very few grad students professors rely on undergraduates to aid in their research and professors can focus more on undergrads giving undergrads a much better chem education. When you say Stanford or Harvard is a good school for chem, you are basing this claim on the strengths of the graduate schools (i.e. Research grants, publications, etc.) and while the strength of a grad school might be important for a grad student it shouldn't matter to an undergrad.
In fact, I believe that these schools with prestigious graduate schools will offer less to an undergraduate chemistry student because the profs will be more graduate focused meaning that students will have less support in their studies, research positions will be more menial and scarce, and frankly the students don't get the education they deserve. I think at Ivies like Princeton, Brown, and Dartmouth, you can really get a good undergrad chem program that can prove invaluable when it is time to apply for med school or grad school because of the close faculty/student interaction. Just my 2 cents. Westcoastlove- thethoughtprocess knocks the Gourman report reflexively. But, his/her recommendations actually support the Gourman report.
Notice that every one of the schools named by thethoughtprocess is in the Gourman list. There are ways to corroborate the Gourman UNDERGRADUATE rankings.
They agree well with the US News Business and Engineering undergrad rankings. Eighteen out of the 22 most prolific chemistry PhD-producing universities are listed in the Gourman chemistry ranking. That is, schools whose undergrads go on to earn PhDs. Just for the record, thethoughtprocess, tell us which schools in the Gourman list don't belong or were left off. And, what is your method for determining your recommendations? Where is your data?
I’d second Smartalic34’s recommendation and add, among other LACs, Carleton, Harvey Mudd, Swarthmore, Pomona, Haverford, Bowdoin, Reed, and Oberlin. Don’t underestimate their small sizes. Carleton, for example, turns out more physical science PhD’s based on student body size than any of the Ivys and more female PhD’s, even in absolute numbers, than much larger research institutions such as Princeton, Hopkins, and Dartmouth. If you’re interested in research powerhouses, Berkeley still reigns supreme. Northwestern and Cornell offer not only top chemistry departments, but uniquely strong supporting nanotechnology sections that set them aside as cutting the cutting edge.
CalTech, MIT, HYPS, Chicago and Columbia all have excellent programs as do, on the state level, Wisconsin-Illinois-UNC. If you really see yourself as pre-med first and a basic scientist second, I believe that all of the above schools (and many not listed) will serve you well and would suggest you focus less on strength of major and more on the multitude of other factors in play in choosing a college.
Many of the small liberal arts colleges have great biochemistry programs. Many students don’t initial think of small liberal arts schools as science places, but many of the best small liberal arts colleges are science powerhouses (e.g., Amherst, Carleton, Grinnell, Harvey Mudd, Haverford, Reed, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Williams produce the most Ph.Ds in the sciences of the LACs). A liberal arts college provides an atmosphere for high-level research, intense and engaged study, close collaboration with faculty (without competition with grad students for faculty time), classes taught by professors (not grad students), etc.
This atmosphere cultivates independent and creative thought, sound reasoning, and effective problem-solving skills. Bowdoin- Carleton- Grinnell- Haverford- Reed- Swarthmore- Wesleyan- Williams. ^ I don't think that is really the way to go.
Undergraduate schools that produce the most future pHDs in biochemistry says nothing about the education quality, faculty research productivity, or abundance (or lack there of) undergraduate research internships/opportunities of those schools at the undergraduate level. The question is, does producing more future pHDs mean that its has a good program in biochemistry? The only thing that can be inferred is that those schools attract people who have a greater tendency to pursue higher degrees of education. It doesn't say much about the quality of the undergraduate program.
Biochemistry - 2006 Biochemistry - 2007. With respect to the comment above, both the Ph.D undergrad origin lists and the faculty productivity list you propose are proxys for undergrad excellence.
But they are just that proxys. I certainly don't think the faculty productivity measure is any better indicator of quality (in fact, I think it's worse, but I'm willing to concede that reasonable minds may differ). Faculty productivity tells you about levels of research being done, but often the most productive scholars aren't spending lots of time in the classroom. They leave the teaching to grad students and sometimes other professors. So, I would contend that faculty productivity doesn't tell you a great deal about the quality of undergraduate education.
(Although it probably speaks more to gradute education.) I think PH.D production tells you more than just 'that those schools attract people who have a greater tendency to pursue higher degrees of education.' Ph.D programs are competitive and can attract the best students (combination of innate intelligence and undergrad preparation), so the fact that certain schools produce lost of Ph.D.
Students does tell you something about the quality of the program. In other words, Ph.D. Programs are consumers and they pick from the best programs. According to the lists posted by vossron, it seems that elite LACs like Harvey Mudd, Haverford, Reed and a few others which top both of the above lists are worthy of consideration as 'best departments for undergraduate studies.'
Especially b/c those schools have extensive resources (among the nation's highest per student endowment figures) providing an 'abundance of undergraduate research internships/opportunities,' high quality labs, best educated professors, etc. In addition, b/c they focus solely on undergrad education, I'd argue that they do it even better (no distraction from grad students). Again, reasonable minds can differ. These are all sources of information, and Some of us are just saying one would be wise to consider certain LACs in addition to major research universities. Undergraduate schools that produce the most future pHDs in biochemistry says nothing about the education quality On this point we simply disagree; self-selection is clearly a factor, but I believe quality undergrad instruction is generally a prerequisite to gaining admission to and then succeeding in a PhD program. I copy these tables from posts by interesteddad, who distills them from IPEDS and NSF data.
It would be helpful if I changed the 1000 to percentage.:) I've read that the original purpose of the IPEDS data was to show that LAC graduates are not at a disadvantage compared the research U BA/BS grads; it's not meant to be a ranking. My impression is that the 25+ schools in the lists are more or less considered to all be excellent schools. Other schools provide quality biochem undergrad instruction, as others have posted.
The more info, the better, I think. Does producing 1% more pHD graduates mean much? How can you take such a difference and use it to compare undergraduate schools? Most of those schools only differ by 0.1% is marginal at best. My question to you is this. Whose decision is to to pursue a higher degree of education?
Are you basing your assumption that if everyone in that undergrad person wants to apply for a graduate degree, pHD programs would cherry pick from the best schools with the best programs. That is not the case. Its mostly individual decisions that govern whether or not they even decide to get a pHD. Its like not quality of the program dictates whether or not they will get a pHD. Its the tendency for schools to attract students who want to rigorously apply for and get a pHD in the first place. With that said, it shows that certain schools have more students with the mindet of getting pHDs, not the list of schools the are the most successful in getting students into pHDs.
Top Undergraduate Biochemistry Programs
Two very different things. One example can be ou can have an average program, but the school is filled with students who are likeminded and many people want to pursue a terminal degree.
Given the larger applicant pool from this particular school, you may have a significantly great chance of producing more pHD students just by the volume of percentage recieved. Quality may play a role, but that cannot be the only inferrence that can be made from this list.
Is it because these schools attract bright minds to want to become pHDs to begin with? Could be as well as quality of the program. It could be both. I agree that faculty productivity ranking may be an even worse proxy. It is atleast a biochemistry ranking lol.
Does producing 1% more pHD graduates mean much? How can you take such a difference and use it to compare undergraduate schools? Are you basing your assumption that if everyone in that undergrad person wants to apply for a graduate degree, pHD programs would cherry pick from the best schools with the best programs. I'm not comparing undergrad schools.
Stanford University
Like I said before: '. It's not meant to be a ranking.' My assumptions are limited: The schools on the lists provide quality undergrad instruction in those fields, are a good bet for those wanting to get a PhD in those fields and go into research, and that some studying biochem will so do. I was an undergraduate biochemistry major in the 1990s.
The schools I considered were Bowdoin, Virginia Tech, Wisconsin, and MIT. I had read in a book that Bowdoin was the best undergrad biochem program.
But I didn't want to stick my folks with a $20,500 (seems cheap now, huh?) tuition bill, nor did I want to go to such a small school. I didn't like the representatives from MIT because they came across as very snobbish - as if I was privileged just to talk to someone from MIT.
Wisconsin was a medically-oriented program with a great reputation and was a very large program. Virginia Tech's program was not oriented toward a med school and was (at least at the time) the largest undergrad biochem program in the nation.
I ended up at VT for many reasons, but mostly it was a combination of the school's size, the scope of elective courses available, and the good reputation it had for promoting undergraduate research opportunities while not pushing students into doctoral programs. In short, the program fit me.
It really shouldn't matter so much what ranking a program has - after all, that's always someone's opinion. VT is regarded very highly among academics and industry professionals alike, but so are Wisconsin and Bowdoin, and of course MIT is too. A prospective student should consider what he or she might want to do with a B.S.
In Biochem - med school, vet school, PhD program, industry, etc., and try to choose a program that will prepare him or her best for that outcome. Equally important is the fit for the student - large/small school, large/small program, opportunities for elective study and undergrad research, etc.